Wednesday, November 19, 2014
The plots they are hatching
Alright! Let's get this started, yeah?
The Great Player Wipe of 2014 devoured bits, bags, stats, mats - the accumulated detritus of a thousand journeys. As the universe rebooted itself, some things were carried forward
You'll never pwipe Christof
Some things took seed and regrew differently
Break it up, clans
And some things were lost forever
Crafting.
Version 2.0 of crafting (which was disabled after the wipe - version 1.0 was a well-received trial run with a very different item set many, many years ago) was balanced around a different era. With the universal reboot came the perfect opportunity to revisit this game-defining system and improve it.
I've spent the past several months doing design work, starting from scratch conceptually to create the crafting system that I'd like to see today. The first two crafting systems were designed from a mechanical viewpoint - that is, I took a look at the tools I had and thought, "how can I use these tools to put together a cool crafting system?" For crafting 3.0, I'm trying a slightly different approach.
This time around, I have a long history of player behavior and feedback to work from. I can now take advantage of the numerous AI and system improvements which have been implemented over the years. I have the basic crafting infrastructure as a starting platform, and much more design experience than when I first unleashed the salvage gnomes onto Aur-Vindi.
Will 3.0 be any good? Who knows, it's a coin-toss. It's exciting as hell to try, though!
I began the design process in August by drafting a statement of purpose. Without any specific mechanics in mind, I looked back at Nodeka's crafting history, revisited various crafting systems throughout other games, daydreamed a little (a lot), and came up with a set of goals for 3.0. I won't be dumping my whole set of design notes here - allure relies on mystery! - but a few of the goals and lessons I ended up with were:
+ Experimentation is key: modular construction of items via diversity of inputs (decisions)
+ Trash: things should be crafted because they are needed; avoid "skill-up trash"
+ The grind: I prefer the focus to be on "skilling up" the item, rather than grinding a player skill
+ Stat inflation: no
+ Lifetimes: too many negative game implications; shift focus to permanent gear
+ The crafter should matter: investment + decisions = unique output, potential for economy
These goals (and a number of others) guided the design process. Coming up with a good solution is not as easy as writing up some rules and following them - there are limitations on scope, coding considerations, contradictory goals - but bridging that give and take with your singular overpowered tool (your imagination) is the fun part of making a game system stew.
Blah blah blah my MotD is still empty
I've decided to post this Sixth Sense entry now because the end of the design process is in sight. There were several false starts and do-overs, but I think I have the outline of a system which fits the framework I was aiming for, and which is also possible for me to implement. It will take another week or so to finalize some details, and then I can start the actual implementation (scripting, resource creation, and coding).
In the meantime, while I'm doing the wrap-up work, I wanted to open up the boards to chat about what you think about crafting. I think most of us have encountered crafting systems throughout our gaming histories. Which systems did you like the most, and what did you like about them? What would your vision be for bringing the salvage gnomes out of unemployment?
Let me know in the comments, and thanks for playing!
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I enjoy experimentation and seeing my choices in what I craft play an important role in what I am able to use and equip. I also enjoy being able to craft gear for a specific type of stats or build.
ReplyDeleteSounds good Whim. Few questions:
ReplyDelete1. Any chance that pk could feature in some way? i.e. special materials being provided as rewards or something like that.
2. If crafted items are permanent, will they be unique-able?
Regards,
-Iblis.
Sounds like a nice way to implement crafting again. I like the focus on improving once piece of gear over an extended period of time rather than the constant scramble to put together the mats you need to build your replacement piece.
ReplyDeleteI have similar questions that run in the same vein as those put forth by Iblis. Is there a way we could get pk implemented into crafting? I think there needs to be fairly staunch rank requirements to get the bonuses (i.e. a 50k character can't get the bonus for killing a 35k character), but I think that would be a nice addition.
My second question is also regarding infuscated marbles. I've heard rumor that there will be no more SU week - making marbles useful until you get your gear where you want it, and then they are only useful for keeping Ruushi gear from fading. Are you planning on implementing use of marbles into the crafting system somehow? Perhaps requiring x marbles to upgrade an item from Tx to Tx+1? Also maybe allowing them to be traded for certain rare materials? Just a thought, and I don't think they should be compulsory to complete any part of the crafting phase - as Nodeka can be a free to play game - but that would allow marbles to have another use.
Cheers,
Lakshmi
I like your thoughts on Marbles Lakshmi! Buying rare materials or using Marbles for upgrades! Nijlo enabled us to purchase Marbles for experience quite awhile ago so marbles arent impossible to get :)
DeleteI've always enjoyed specializations that meant something, i.e. armorsmith that can add 1 extra stat slot to his gear or craft a special bind to account piece of gear that's slightly better than what is available to the masses that only he can equip.
ReplyDeleteIf specializations were added the ability to reset a specialization.
-Cerin
I agree with this. I also like the idea that after you specialize, only you can use gear created using your specialization. That way there is a reward for investing time into the crafting system, rather than just buying gear made by others.
DeleteI love buying materials and helping people out with crafteds so I kinda dislike this, but not just for that reason, I really think if you dont wanna put time into crafting, you should still be able to get top-end gear
DeleteSince you phrased it broadly, I'll share my thoughts from being forced into crafting by DA:I. I hate being forced into crafted gear. I much prefer it when a game makes crafting completely optional. The things I hate, in loose order:
ReplyDelete1. collecting widgets. let me devote time I would otherwise be having fun to going out of my way to looking for shit on the ground/peeling it offa corpses, so that I can completely destroy my inventory space. then to find out I don't have enough unicorn spangles, and I also have to collect developer's crystalline tears, which I've never seen, so now venture off and collect it! f***, that's so boring.
2. the formulas you have to acquire/devise stuff. especially randomized/obfuscated formulas. look, if fur doesn't keep me warm and protected against the cold, I'm going to call bullshit on the whole deal. if fire gems aren't related to fire, THEN WHY ARE THEY CALLED FIRE GEMS.
3. being forced into crafting; meaning you'd be at a sharp disadvantage if you didn't want to spend time sewing. I'm capable of sewing and cooking and farming in real life, I don't want to do that in a game.
I liked WoW's reforging of stats, where you could change up to 40% of a stat on a piece of gear into another stat of the same category (haste into crit). That made it easier to hit breakpoints exactly. We don't have many meaningful breakpoints in Nodeka (anymore), but the stat customization is probably the biggest draw of crafting/gear moding for me.
I LOVED the gathering of materials, putting it together, and experimenting with gemcombos :P But I still think there should be some way to get small hints of what should and shouldnt be used together
DeleteAlong the lines of hints, my thought would be that you can focus on the learning aspect of the craft in which case it won't be as high a quality or maybe produce a craft at all, but you could get a hint or recipe out of the experience.
Delete-Cerin
This is a great time to add an auctioneer/auction house type system to enhance an economy of these items.
ReplyDeleteFurther, the system NEEDS to be transparent. Plans/Recipes should be learned from mobs or drops. As much as experimentation is fun, it's frustrating when working with limited acquired items like gems.
Crafting shouldn't be too intrusive on a players eq currently. Some people have worked hard on their gear currently and having a crafted system with 15 slots of gear would ruin much of the permanent gear that people have now or have worked to get. Possibly limit the slots to ruushi slots (so you have to make a decision what you want to wear) or ruushi + some extra slots.
I would like to see crafted eventually become more powerful then a best in slot piece now, but it shouldn't from day 1.
My thoughts on crafting
ReplyDeleteThe crafted item should be added to your current gear, allowing 3 mods to your current gear. These mods can have different levels varying on the crafted materials used.
Basic material - 5 salvage would give ie +5 to a stat or 200 to pool
you could mix and match material so that you could have + 2 stat + 2stat +40 pool or take that material and combine it 100 times to create the next tier item or if lucky able to find one during adventures. Level 2 item +10 stat or 400 to pool. The higher the level you make the item, the more and more mats required to complete. Once an item is added to a piece of equipment, it can not be modified anymore. Once a slot is used on the piece of equipment, it can not be removed unless you use a marble on the slot to clear it out again.
I think they could be added to Ruushi gear too creating super unique gear that would still have an expiration to it. User could use a marble on the piece of Ruushi gear to refresh the base gear and time not affecting the crafted addons.
Link
I would like to see a VERY robust crafting system that takes time to work up in skill and creates a vibrant market. Currently in Nodeka, you basically run/bot, PK, and do invasion. If you don't PK a lot, you basically are left with botting for 4 hours and then invasion, repeat. It would be nice to have something else to do and have rewards (exp, pracs, etc) for the time consumed. Not everyone would have to participate, they could buy in, but for those who want to, give them something to actually work towards and a sense of accomplishment.
ReplyDeleteSome general suggestions:
1) Don't have one size fits all. In crafting 2.0, the only class restricted items were weapons. Call me a traditionalist, but mage classes shouldn't be wearing platemail. There should be some overlap and certain material types could have different strengths and weaknesses but have restrictions.
2) Have more than one crafting skill. Break it down. Armorsmith for plate armor, weaponsmith, jeweler, etc. Everyone should be able to do all of the skills at some level, but either have specializations where people are forcibly restricted to only 1-2 skills at a high level, or make it take a very long time to be able to train up all of the skills to the highest levels. Taking a long time for multiple skills would somewhat happen naturally due to overlapping material needs requiring a choice of which skill to use them for.
3) Have material preparation skills (smelting for prepping metal, leatherworking for converting hides to leather, etc). Those could be restricted or difficult to work all of them up also. They could mostly align with the various crafting skills (e.g. focusing on armorsmithing would align with smelting and leatherworking for 95% of the materials needed).
4) Have crafting support skills such as alchemist and runecrafting which make specialized components that can be added into standard crafting recipes to give bonuses (e.g. create a gem/powder/rune that gives +10str).
5) In some way or another, allow crafting to add things that cannot otherwise be achieved, such as 10% resist fire or 10% lateral deterrence.
6) Have some sort of fixed recipes that can either be purchased or found or both.
7) An auction house would be awesome.
Make it have a fairly high barrier to get really good at and that creates a vibrant marketplace where one person cannot really just do everything themselves. That makes the skill(s) valuable and rare.
One of the big problems with crafting 2.0 was the sheer volume of materials needed. A wide variety of materials and quantity of materials is not necessarily a bad thing, but trying to keep them all in inventory is. The ability to trade lower grade materials at Gerahf was useful but ungodly time consuming and only one person could do it at a time. Having some better mechanism to up-convert materials would be great or not have material tiers, just have recipes that vary wildly so that it isn't formulaic.
But in general, with a lot of materials, there are a couple of ways to handle it:
1) have very large/unlimited containers that can only hold crafting materials (maybe they are basic crafting skill to make).
2) Allow people to purchase a "workshop" that is a private room where they can purchase "trunks" to store large quantities of crafting materials. Could have a single entrance in ruushi/av and it just redirects the person to their private room when they enter it. The rooms and items would save through reboot. Or just have bank vaults that people can buy where they can store anything, not just crafting materials.
Iron
Woh Iron, youre kinda cool :P
DeleteI agree, would be fun if, to skill crafting, you couldnt just bot fens for scraps or buy it, youd have to do really odd quests, preferably something very random that couldnt be scripted so people had to put their time into it
1. Only problem Id see would be the immense amount of extra names on items :P
2. Also cool idea, but since I wanna do it all, id atleast want the possibility to level all aspects of crafting to max, but like you said, if so, make it real expensive and time consuming
3. Love it
4. This would really make the Auction channel or your point 7. really fucking amazing :P People who didnt wanna focus crafting, could just take on proff to make stuff crafters needed
5. Dont think it would be a problem balancing that ?
6. Recipes/Clues/Rare materials bought for Marbles, extremely rare Recipes/Cluts/Mats found with a 0.0001% drop rate on all mobs :P
And nods, if the same system for turning in salvage, converting scraps to comps and trading comps is gonna be active, we need Gerahf's brother Olaf and Stacys cousin Gina to move in next to them to back them up
Buying things for marbles is a bad idea. Many of us who have been around for a decade or more have a ton of marbles and nothing much to do with them. However, for a true new player, or even someone who didn't have a lot of money to donate in the past, needing marbles to get things is an almost insurmountable barrier.
DeleteI am all for having recipes drop randomly throughout the world. The more rare the recipe, the more rare it drops. I would not really be in favor of having a fixed drop location on the biggest mobs in the game though. That just favors the power classes and biggest players even more. Keep it truly random.
Iron
So I can bot academy/kobolds/super small areas and have the same chance at a drop as someone clearing kazbek?? no thanks...
Delete-Argh
Should we then have the highest level materials drop from kazbek and if you can't run there, then you're just SOL on crafting at the highest level? Should the best recipes be rare drop from the chromatic progenator in DS and if you can't spawn her, then you just won't have nice things? That just widens the gaps between the power classes and the rest even more.
DeletePersonally, I am more in favor of buying recipes. Maybe you have to do certain things that are widely available but time consuming to be able to purchase the higher level recipes.
Iron
In all honesty, everyone on Nodeka have been around for ages and have tons of marbles if they go through their chars. Anyone claiming to be new is just someones alt or multi, atleast anyone sticking around.
DeleteBut im more on Irons side, truely random with an INSANELY low droprate, if its actually gonna be that you need a recipe to make something specific and you cant just guess your way there, the best recipes should maybe drop in a year for us, the more time we get to spend on this without reaching the cap, the better :D
Couldnt you add Bags as something craftable and upgradeable ? Like when its maxed, its a 50 slot bag but it has costed alot of leather/cloth to make ?
ReplyDeleteWouldnt it be more fun to remove the "scrap specific" areas like fens/hades/ds/sh, and just make the world salvages drop more frequent ?
ReplyDeleteWould take alot of pressure of those areas + you could then have San'vestra give different sort of quests, like kill 3 angels in abyss, 2 green dragons in ds, 2 armors in kazbek and come back with their souls, if you would add some mobs from basically all areas in the game, it would keep it abit more active :)
While not explicitly crafting related, a thought I had about Ruushi eq was that you could level that up with inferior materials that might add a little more time to current pieces as well as improve them in quality. Thus a spate of poor invasions wouldn't negate a person's ability to get some of the nicer Ruushi gear. Not sure on the exact costs of things to balance them out such that they don't become permanent, but was just a thought.
ReplyDelete-Cerin